Melyssa
Well, first of all, I just have to say that from the conversation that we had, maybe it was about a month ago, and just the energy that I felt from you then and the ways that I felt you not seeing your value in what you bring, you’re almost like trying to convince me of how you don’t know enough, you need to know more. And now I just feel this vibrancy from you and this different level of competence. So that’s amazing. Kudos to you for the way that you’ve processed and integrated that in such a short amount of time to really show up in pursuit of your vision, it’s really cool to see.

Jessica
Thank you. I know it wouldn’t have been possible without the mastermind, your support and the guidance – it’s been tremendous. And again, like I said, three years ago, I started to pivot and I wasn’t really able to really step into those shoes until now.

Melyssa
Thank you. Yeah, beautiful how everything just falls into place right when it’s meant to grow. Now, with this newfound confidence, you’ve been going after this vision of creating your podcast, and reached out to somebody who seemed like kind of a stretch person, someone I know you really admire to be on the podcast and this feeling of almost “I hope they say no, because then I don’t worry about it.” Kind of like when you’re asked to speak on a stage, and then you’re really excited. And then the day comes, and you’re like, “I wish I hadn’t said yes to this, because now I feel really nervous.”

Jessica
What did I get myself into?

Melyssa
Exactly, exactly. And so they said yes. And now there’s sort of this self talk that’s happening. Can you walk me through that? What are some of the fears and beliefs that are coming up now that this person said yes?

Jessica
I better not screw up. I better make sure it’s perfect. Even though in my heart I know, the best ideas, the best conversations happen when it’s not forced. So I know that logically, I think in my heart, but then the fears are like, “Oh, maybe you should ask interesting questions. She’s been on so much podcast, maybe? How would yours be different?”

Melyssa
So there’s this sense of it has to be perfect. And it has to be better than what else is out there, in order to be noticed?

Jessica
Yeah, or different. Because I worried about them having to answer the same questions over and over again. Why would I ask them if I could just Google it? But then I also think “Your listeners will probably not know those same stories as you do.” So I have conflicting, like my heart and my mind are always fighting. And I think I mentioned in the slack group, how my mind is like, “Oh, all those fears!” And my heart is like, “Everything will be good.”

Melyssa
Yes. And I feel like you just totally hit on the head of something that so many of us experience, which is these dueling voices of the highest self, the most authentic part of you. And then the fearful self, which I think comes from a lot of the chatter and the the beliefs that were passed down to us that aren’t actually us more of the conditioning and the programming that was put on to us. And so I think a lot of what we get to do is navigating what’s actually me? And what’s the conditioning that’s been put on me? And how can I find the trust and courage to follow what’s actually me, even if it conflicts with this conditioning?

Melyssa
So wanting it to be different, potentially, then the questions and conversations that this person has had on other podcasts. Have you started structuring out what you would want to ask them in the interview?

Jessica
Yeah. Today, I was just brainstorming and just kind of not, at first, I was listening at their other podcasts. But then I’m like, I’m not getting into…. I don’t want to get their ideas. But I was like, it’s inspiration. But then I think it gets to a point where inspiration can become noise, when I don’t filter it, or when I go from a sense of from a place of, can I meet those expectations? So I think I caught myself, like feeling insecure. Okay, it’s fine. Just let the questions well, like you’re talking to You’re like a friend. So that help it so I structured it a bit better. So I have a couple of questions that I feel very excited about.

Melyssa
Hmm, well, I love that, that you’ve started to find a direction because it can often feel even more stressful when the idea is swirling in your head. But you haven’t actually put pen to paper yet. So I love that you’ve started doing that. Bring some clarity and actually lighten some of the fears to get started. So now that you’ve found sort of this nuanced direction, you want to go in with the interview and it seems like it’s different and feels aligned for you. How are you feeling now about that particular interview?

Jessica
I feel a lot more grounded and secure. I think like you said, I had to start doing it, instead of letting it spiral in my head, which has been like sitting in the weekend and doing that. I, I think there was also a part of me who was too afraid to start that part. But the reason I started is because the interview is Thursday. So, okay, let’s get that momentum. You can do this.

Melyssa
Nothing like a deadline to get you going.

Jessica
That’s what I’m motivated – external accountability.

Melyssa
Interesting. And so now that you’ve started doing it, it seems like it’s getting a little bit easier. And so maybe the fear is less prevalent.

Jessica
Yeah, it’s less prevalent. And then it’s a fear that I think I also wrote down at the beginning of the mastermind is the fear of being seen, and taking up space. So I’m, I realize I’m taking these steps. And eventually, I will have to hit Publish. Eventually, I’ll have to share. And it’s, there’s something so daunting about it. And I’m curious about when the conditioning happened? And what are some ways that I could recondition myself?

Melyssa
Hmm, yeah, I love this thread to go down. Yeah, the fear of being seen fear of picking up space. That’s a big one. A lot of people experience.

Melyssa
Was there a time when you felt very seen? And it wasn’t seen in a way that felt good. And even if there’s like, the first memory that pops in your head,

Jessica
I think just as a kid singing, you know, singing out loud, I think it was in Peru, and it was after, for free communion. It’s a Catholic school. So I had all these church songs that I was singing non stop when I got home. And my mom, I think she just got very tired because I was singing non stop, and she doesn’t understand any of the words. She’s like, “Can you quiet down?” Something about the way she says it. And I still remember it until now. And it might be one of the reasons why I don’t feel comfortable singing out loud. When I see somebody singing out loud, or, like humming to a song. That’s amazing.

Melyssa
How did you feel before she said that? How did it feel when you were singing?

Jessica
That felt so liberating, I felt like I was shining and connecting to myself and just just letting that energy flow out of me.

Melyssa
Beautiful. So what you were taught in that moment, was that when I’m feeling liberated, and I’m shining, and I’m connecting to myself, that’s when people don’t like me. That’s when I’m told to quiet down. So it’s better if I’m quiet. And I’m not too big and liberated and shining. Because that’s where the disconnect happens.

Jessica
Yes. Because that triggers, like a bunch of other memories, where I had this fluffy dress to look like Mama Claus. But I loved it. And I wore it to one of those parties. I think it was like a 10th grade party or a 10 year old party, and people were making fun of me. But I was also like, you know what, I love it. I don’t care. But a part of me, of course, was like, Why don’t they love this dress?

Melyssa
And there was probably, whether it’s one of those two memories or something even further back, there is probably a situation that sparked this feeling within you of being too big, makes other people feel disconnected from me, or it doesn’t feel safe in some way. And then these other situations would happen. And you’d start to build this case against yourself by evidence. And eventually, what we do is, and this is common for all of us, we build this case of evidence about the things that we think aren’t safe to be. And then eventually, you just stop being that you stop wearing the big fluffy dress, stop singing. And then it comes time to create something like a podcast and it’s bringing back these very old fears. Because now you’ve got this new case that’s being loaded against you of all those past fears and memories that might not even be conscious, like you may not have thought about the fluffy Jess situation when you’re creating the podcast. Same feeling, it’s coming from that.

Jessica
Yes. Like the vulnerability of it’s kind of exposing yourself in a way I don’t know if that’s a proper expression.

Melyssa
Yeah, right. Because if you drill down the feelings you had in those moments of like, here’s me, and my biggest shining create itself, and I’m getting almost criticized for it. It really starts to distill the feeling inside of you of my Biggest shining self is actually bad. And I need to be my smallest, not shining self or at least somehow make myself the way that’s palatable to other people.

Jessica
Yes, yes. And even sharing, like more memories are coming up, like even sharing with my cousins. Like, I love Sailor Moon. And they were like, make fun of me like, Oh, that’s such a silly cartoon, like you watch Barney and all those things that I loved. I was being shamed for it. But I know there were also teasing. But yeah, I think those feelings of being me of loving and embracing those things were really, really… it separated me from other people.

Melyssa
Yeah, exactly. And now, when you think about, and we kind of did this at our mastermind retreat, where we did some work on healing the inner child and connecting to your highest, most authentic self, when you think about this podcast, and recording the episode, and really just putting it out there for people to see, like, actually hearing your voice too and leading this podcast, there’s probably this little human inside of you is old self or child self. That’s like raging, that’s throwing a tantrum, because they’re feeling the way that they felt 10 or 20 years ago. And so if you can think about, what would they have needed, then, in those moments, where they were told to be quiet, or to not wear the fluffy dress? Or not like Sailor Moon? What did you need to hear then that would have made you feel safe.

Jessica
It’s okay to be yourself. Like, you know, everyone else, likes what they like you don’t like them. You don’t need to make them feel bad about it. But what you like makes you special. What you like makes you you. And you will find the people who resonate with what you like, and you can share those things with them.

Melyssa
Yeah. Do you feel like you found people like that in your life? Now, you said you’ll find the people who are resonate with the things you like?

Jessica
Yes. In the past couple of years. I quit my full time job two years ago. And I’m realizing from our conversation, why it was also so daunting to step in was because now I’m embracing my passion for yoga and wellness. And it’s scary because a lot of people I feel like in my life or like my parents they don’t care about it. Or it’s a message that doesn’t resonate with my old crew of people in the advertising industry back in the day. So I feel like I’m becoming myself and maybe also isolating from others. But as I dive more into yoga, and into the BAM community, I found so many like minded people and like minded even, like, just kind of like soul connections. When I started embracing myself.

Melyssa
Because it doesn’t feel like you’re putting up a mask. It feels like people who are liking you are really liking you, for you. Not for the mask version of you.

Jessica
Yeah, for whatever your accomplishments, your degree, you know, all those society boxes.

Melyssa
And something I noticed about you too, in the mastermind is that people really love you, they really vibe with you. And the way that you show up, I even remember, on the last day of the retreat, when we were all sharing our appreciation of each other. So many people had things to say about you about how you impacted them and guided them. And were just a really bright spot for them.

Jessica
I’m trying to understand why it makes me feel uncomfortable, as well, because I’m grateful to be able to help but then it feels… I hear my mom telling me like, of course, they’re going to say these things, no one’s going to tell you that “you suck” in front of you. So that’s how I that’s it’s something I’m working on to be better with compliments and to believe them, which is also so hard when I you know, I know she means no harm. But it’s also Yeah, It’s bittersweet.

Melyssa
Tell me more about what your mom would say. That’s interesting.

Jessica
I think sometimes people will compliment her or about her daughters. And she would say, of course, they will say those things. People are not going to say that, you know, your daughter is dumb in front of you, or, you know, or that I look older gonna say I look younger, they’re gonna say all these things. And I’m like, Oh, yeah, of course. So whenever anyone ever complimented us, me or my sister, that’s how they would like immediately filtered through like, Don’t believe everything everybody says. And it helps us build a thick skin but also kind of a distance from everyone else.

Melyssa
Yeah. Did it start is almost a protective measure against things like criticism, and then carried its way through to even positive feedback from people?

Jessica
I think so. I think so. I mean, my culture growing up, it’s, they don’t give you compliments. It’s always either for food or for something. They’re like, Oh, good thing you study so hard. That’s what you have a good grade, they would never say, Hey, I’m proud of you for having a good grade. Like, it’s because I made you study. That’s why you had a good grade.

Melyssa
So there’s two things that I’m noticing. One is if you think about compliments, and receiving as an energy, and you kind of imagine two people, and one person has this energy of compliments, and they want to pass it to you. But instead of you actually absorbing the energy and letting it fill your body and just feel into like, wow, that felt really good. It like bounces right off. And so the energy of receiving love and support and compliments from other people never actually gets to fill you up, you’re trained instead, for it to bounce off of you. And yeah, that can be difficult when it’s literally like a ping pong, just bouncing right off of you, instead of you getting to swim in this feeling of Wow, I’m very supported and loved genuinely not because people have to say it because they want to. Yeah, and then the other comments, I’m like, I made you steady. And that’s why I can also create this feeling of nothing you’ve created that you’re proud of is your own doing. It’s because someone else wants you to do it or had the idea. And so I think buying it can create this feeling of just deep unworthiness. And yeah, to receiving

Jessica
I it’s such a huge unraveling. And I think, for me, at least I’ll always be reprogramming myself to coming back to who I am. Because you know, you pick it up from society, and you’re home and everything. And again, they start with good intentions. I’m learning to be better with compliments. A friend of mine actually told me like I’m trying to send you a compliment, like, stop ping pong’ing back, you know. And then I realized, Oh, it’s an exchange of energy. And, you know, sometimes I’m good at saying, Okay, I’ll feel it. But I think with the retreat, it felt good. But then I felt so overwhelmed. Why are they all saying that? And then my mind’s like, are you just saying it to be nice now, because it was so much. That was, you know, lovely, but also, gosh, imposter syndrome.

Melyssa
I did not ask for any of that, as people just saying it, just to say it because they didn’t have to say it. It was really just anyone, we popcorns to each other, whoever wanted to say something. So, yeah, people really did genuinely want to recognize you. Yeah. And I like that you said that about your friends experience with sharing compliments, I have a friend who really doesn’t receive compliments, well, or will deflect them very quickly. And I just love this friend and want to give him compliments. And I do and when he deflects them, it creates an experience within me too of “Let me just love you!”

Melyssa
I get something out of giving you this compliment, knowing that you feel good. And so when it’s not received, it actually creates a different experience within me too. So it’s kind of this two way thing of your receiving isn’t selfish. And it actually creates a positive experience in the people that you’re with to.

Jessica
Yeah, that’s true. Because when I give a compliments because it feels good, I don’t do it, you know, for anything else. So that’s good to remember. Feel good for everyone.

Melyssa
So when someone compliments you, like when I just brought that up a few minutes ago about the people at the retreat, really highlighting and recognizing you, when you get a lot of those compliments, what does it feel like inside of your body?

Jessica
It makes a fuzzy good feeling. Like my heart say, God, that’s all nice. And then the mind is the preconditioning. So sometimes I try to just you know, simmer in that energy, but I know that the mind is whispering they’re like, “Okay, I don’t believe at all.”

Melyssa
Yeah. And almost like your your mom whispering there?

Jessica
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Melyssa
Do you meditate at all?

Jessica
I do. Guided Meditation. So if they’re saying prompts that could help.

Melyssa
Do you ever try meditation without guided? Like with just music or Just Breathing?

Jessica
Yes, I find that most of the time my mind just spirals.

Melyssa
Yeah, yeah, that’s pretty common. Because what I’m thinking is that, in those moments when you receive compliments, and you’re feeling really good, and then all of a sudden, the mind kicks in. And it’s like, don’t believe it, you can’t trust this person. They’re just trying to be nice. I think the more that you can meditate through it, and actually just feel the sensation of it in your body, which I think can come from practice of meditation, especially non guided meditation, where you’re really just feeling your body and your breath, the easier it will be to start deflecting the mind. Because the mind is, it’s just the thing that’s creating a story on top of the bodily sensation that you’re feeling, and will feel a sensation in our body. And then our mind feels that and translates it into like words in our brain in our thoughts. So if you can just skip that step, and just really sink even deeper into Wow, I’m feeling this in my chest, it’s feeling warm. And I’m feeling this expansive feeling. Not intellectualizing your way through it, but just sitting more deeply with how it feels inside of you. And letting it just expand within you, without the logical thought.

Jessica
Right? Love, letting it expand. It’s a thing I’ve been working with, even with my therapist, where my mind over writes my emotion. So she’s just like, listen to both of them. But I love the fact of focusing on just the feeling and letting it expand. I think that would be very helpful for me. Yeah, I used to do walking meditations with just music and I would walk for hours and that would, you know, my mind, you know, any thought that comes and goes, and yeah, it’s something I should get back to doing. It just reminded me of that.

Melyssa
I love that. That sounds very peaceful and grounding.

Jessica
Sometimes music is a bit like, it’s a mix of everything. Also in there, and all that, but I’m like, good. My mind is processing?

Melyssa
Yes, yes. And there’s some good like, I like to put on like binaural beats, or things that are more a vibration versus actual music. And it puts me into this more receptive mode, where I’m not really thinking, I’m really just like, feeling that might be helpful to try and you’re walking meditations or meditation in general too

Jessica
Yes, can you please send me the tracks when you have a moment?

Melyssa
There’s some good playlists on Spotify, I’ll send you those. And kind of like what we were just talking about, our logical brain always wants to apply meaning to something. And usually, the meaning that we create is based on something that we learned in the past, like what your mom has told you, or the big fluffy dress or anything like that. But the actual sensation that we have inside of our body, when we experience something is just a sensation. And so it doesn’t need the meaning in order for it to be to exist. And so the more that we can use things like meditation, or breathing or anything like that, to bypass the need to add the meaning, the more that it could just be a sensation. And that can feel very nourishing and grounding and not not put us into the spiral thought of like, Well, I’m not good enough, and I shouldn’t trust them. And then you can just feel into the sensation, it can feel really good.

Jessica
I don’t know what you open something. Something makes sense. Yeah. Because I used to associate that warm, fuzzy feeling with discomfort because my brain was like, you know, don’t take it seriously. But then if I don’t think of it when my brain is saying, like, it just feels warm and fuzzy.

Melyssa
That’s a really great insight that because of the added layer of the thought, you felt like the bodily sensation was discomfort it actually was just a sensation. It’s not even necessarily good or bad. It’s just a feeling.

Jessica
My mind is blown right now.

Melyssa
And you can use this to for things like let’s say you put the podcast out, I don’t want to freak you out. But let’s just say you put it out and there’s that one person who doesn’t enjoy it and they leave you a negative review and if we fall into the pattern of the mind driving and taking the wheel then it can feel like oh my god, this is reinforcing all the stories that I had. All the conditioning, all those memories that I had, where I felt like speaking up and being big, wasn’t okay, it wasn’t safe. And that can feel extremely distressing. And I think it’s why when people get that one negative comment or email, they can really send you down a spiral, even if you have hundreds of nice emails and comments. And so you can do this practice too of just connecting to the sensation in your body and breathing through it, and deflecting the thoughts that come from it. And so if you ever feel that criticism, you can just identify, where am I feeling this in my body right now? Okay, what does it feel like? And just connecting with that sensation and bringing it love to, sometimes when I’ve felt this before, I’ll identify this sensation and feel it inside my body. And I’ll just, if it’s in my chest, or something, I’ll just say I love you chest, I feel you, I know you’re here to protect me. I love you. And you can almost connect to this part of yourself that really just is an ancient part of you that wants love and to be seen. And to just remind it that it’s loved and it’s cared for, even when it’s in this traumatized state.

Jessica
That was so beautiful, I am definitely going to use it. Thank you for bringing that up. Because again, my brain doesn’t want to go there. But I think it’s good to be prepared, you know, if something does go wrong. What if there’s a blackout on the day of the interview, whatever, you know, the audio or somebody doesn’t resonate, or if somebody gets triggered. That’s very, very good, I guess, coping tool to not lost myself in this spiral. Yeah, feels good to know that

Melyssa
Good. Yeah, it’s a really helpful tool to just keep in your pocket for the moments where you want to feel like expansive joy without thinking you’re going to sabotage it in the moments where things are difficult, and you want to arm yourself and make it a little easier.

Melyssa
So we were talking about the things that you would have said to the little you that didn’t really get the affirmations that she needed at the time, and you said, it’s okay to be yourself. What you like makes you special. And you’ll find the people who resonate with the things you like. When you hear those statements, what comes up for you now, as an adult, knowing that you’re embarking on this sort of new journey with your business?

Jessica
I feel supported. And within the last two months, with the mastermind, it’s the most trust I’ve had in myself in a very long time, knowing that I still have a lot to do that I want to do. But I don’t feel overwhelmed by it all. Before the beginning of the mastermind I was in, I was still trying to figure it out. I’m like, What do you want to do? Why isn’t it you know, taking off, but it’s because I never did anything to take it off. I am still hiding. So now. There’s this new sense of trust, even though there’s all these things, you know, funnels to learn, and to learn, but I feel that I get to do it, there’s a shift that’s happened. I can’t pinpoint a moment or how it happened. I just know it’s happened. And it feels so much more lighter. And now I want to tell everyone, like “Everybody, find your community join the mastermind, because we’re not meant to do this alone.” And it’s something I had to go through. Again, because I I thought independence, you know, figuring everything by yourself was your strongest trait. But you know, I’ve learned the hard way, it isn’t. You just burn out and you end up so isolated.

Melyssa
Yeah, yeah. That’s really profound to hear that you felt the most trust that you’ve had in yourself in the past couple of months. What was it that you feel-And maybe it’s an alchemy of things-but why is that, that you feel so much more trust? And how can you capitalize on that so that you can keep trusting yourself?

Jessica
It’s because I’ve allowed myself to be seen and to show up. In a way that was my biggest fear and block. And somehow I think just being a part of the mastermind and giving myself permission. And I realized it was me all along that was stopping myself for being seen. It wasn’t anyone else. It was just me wanting to be safe, that feeling miserable and then allowing myself to you know, this is time and seeing you Nothing broke, nothing burned. I found amazing people as a result of that, and not because of hiding.

Melyssa
I’ve allowed myself to be seen and show up. And in this state of being seen, how have people received you?

Jessica
They’ve been so open. And I feel like even anything that I’m sharing my story, my content is resonating with people more. In a way, I’ve showed up without any filter, and they’re seeing me for me. So it feels very validating. And it feels like I’m on the right track. Like you can’t put me back. I’m comfortable being I step into the light. I don’t think there’s any other way of going back.

Melyssa
Yeah, yeah, you’ve really developed this level of consciousness around what it means to be you. Yeah. And it sounds like even beyond other people seeing you and validating you. You have seen you and validated you, too.

Jessica
It makes me emotional. But yeah, yeah.

Melyssa
Why does that make you emotional? What comes up for you?

Jessica
About time? Time but also, there’s a lot of love and compassion for my higher self, like I had to go through what I’m going through, maybe that will make me a better coach. That will make me more understanding. Because I’ve been through it. And you know, you can have all the tools sometimes. But if you don’t believe in yourself, if you don’t really step out, then you will never be you.

Melyssa
Yeah, like you’re right on time.

Jessica
Yes. You know, I kept thinking, even years before I quit my career in advertising, I felt like I wasn’t where I was meant to be, and that I was behind. And it was just anxiety. So I was like, I love traveling. And traveling helps for a little bit. And this for the first time. You know, this year where we’ve been quarantined, I’ve been okay. I haven’t felt like, you know, I have to be somewhere else. Or I should be further.

Jessica
It’s such a huge realization with me. Because I thought, I’m just just anxious person, I just want to travel, I want to do all these things. But then I realize you don’t. It’s because I had to come back to myself, come back home to myself.

Melyssa
Yeah, yeah. And I love what you were saying too, about how maybe all of these things that you had to go through in terms of essentially abandoning parts of you are going through these challenging experiences. They were right on time, and they’re going to make you a better and more relatable coach that will understand nuanced ways that your clients and community are going to be showing up so that you can be at the highest service.

Jessica
Amen to that.

Jessica
And this is the first time I’ve ever called myself a coach comfortably. I don’t know why. Well, I do know, it’s the imposter that I could never do it. But now I’m like, Yes. I am. I’ve been certified. I’ve done it before. I’m owning it.

Melyssa
And I think that’s really important because just based on some of the memories that you shared, and and the advice that you got from your mom, it seems like a lot of it is around speaking your truth out loud in a sense, and willing to be seen in that expression. And so even you feel uncomfortable to voice that is a really important step. So I’m just seeing you in that.

Jessica
Thank you. I’m taking it in.

Melyssa
Is there anywhere else you’d like to go and thinking about this podcast and stepping into that and the vision of it?

Jessica
I think I have my tools for now what I’ve taken away from this amazing conversation. I don’t know how you do it. Like last time it was just half an hour talking to you and my you open a chakra this time I feel like you know I’m constantly learning new things about myself. And it all comes back to just be more you It’s okay and the podcast was a step into that direction of really, like you said, voicing what I feel what I am comfortable with, which is something that I’ve kind of locked down for the longest time. I remember talking to some people in a mastermind how I think when I was up to maybe three years old, I was completely me and then I didn’t become me again. Or like I was a wallflower until University when I started open up again. I always wonder what happened in between where I just felt like, you know, it’s better to be quiet. And going from, I guess that quiet persona now, and stepping into the light and being neat and doing a podcast of all things, but it feels I don’t know, I feel called to do it. So it feels right. And I have trust, but who knows. I mean, I’m open to anything. What happens a year or two years from now? Maybe I’ve done with the podcast. I’m open to it growing or not growing. Try not to be too attached to this baby.

Melyssa
Yeah, yeah. What I’m just riding the flow of what feels good moment to moment. I think that’s what alignment feels like to sometimes committing to something can feel stifling if it’s past the point of your soul being actually aligned with that thing. So I think that’s a great strategy for it. And happy to see you in this vibrant self that I know you’ve reconnected to this honest part

Jessica
Thank you. I don’t even know where to start. But you know how grateful I am